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Holy cow, we're back! >>18190


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Before Fatchan went down, we had a pretty good Pokemon thread. So I figured it would probably be a good idea to make one again. Want to talk about the recently leaked Gen 1 and 2 source code, and whatever weird shit is found in there? Sure! Want to talk about how TPC's toy shilling marketing scheme schedule doesn't mix well with developing a video game, and how despite obviously caring Game Freak are too incompetent to fit a normal development schedule let alone one like that? Of course! Want to argue if Pokemon has multiple timelines or if it follows more of a "continuity family" structure? Go right ahead! Want to just ask "WPWYF?"? No, don't do that. If you're going to talk about how much you want to dick a fictional monster at least include some emotional content. /monster/ can do it, why can't you fags?
Oh, for the record, here are the source codes I mentioned.
https://archive.org/details/pokemonblueandyellowsourcecode
https://archive.org/details/pokemoncrystalsource
Replies: >>9674
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Pokemon died with X/Y. From the mainline games, HG / SS and B2 / W2 are the best. But PMD is even better.
Replies: >>61 >>113 >>251 >>879
>>58
Here's a tidbit of PMD info you might not know. Apparently in Korea the game was ported to PC, but only for a demo that apparently required an online connection. I say apparently because it seems like nobody has the files for it. The most information I could find on the game is on the Mystery Dungeon wiki.
https://mysterydungeon.gamepedia.com/Pok%C3%A9mon_Mystery_Dungeon:_Gold_Rescue_Team_-Challenge_the_Gold_Rank!-
The only ways I see this resurfacing is
A. Somebody big in the PMD community (PMDShitpost for example) sending out a call for action
B. Apparently the same source of the source codes in the OP might have some PMD source codes, and since they seem to mostly be localization related (and if you notice one of the filenames up there yes that includes Korea) so there's a good chance that the PC port would be in there as well.
Who knows though, maybe we'll get Sky's source instead.
Can we talk about how cool and informative this website is?
https://www.theworldofpokemon.com/about.html

Come back with an interesting blurb about your favorite pokemon. This is all fanwanking stuff, but it's pretty well thought out fanwank.

>Kabutops can tuck in their limbs and slither at high speeds through the water, capable of reaching up to 29 knots. They slash prey with their sharp, sickle-like arms and drain their body fluids. Kabutops can also leave the water and walk on land for extended periods of time, up to 12 hours in humid environments. This allowed them to thrive as apex predators for a long time, as they could hunt both aquatic and terrestrial prey. However, their lungs are still not developed enough to allow them to stray far away from the water. While it is not known for certain what could have caused their extinction, a popular theory states that some kind of event led to drastically fluctuating temperatures worldwide. Ice caps melted and refroze over and over again, causing sea levels to bounce back and forth. Kabuto and Kabutops were unable to survive completely on land when their shoreline habitats dried up. Additionally, many of the species they preyed on died out during this time, so most of the surviving individuals were likely starved to extinction.
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>>63
>Gengar are most active during full moons, creeping out in the dead of night and disguising themselves as shadows; they may even enters sleeping homes to lurk in the dark. They will mimic every movement their targets make until they lower their guards. Then, they strike, draining their life force as sustenance. Gengar are also said to attack those who are hopelessly lost and afraid in the mountains. Many Gengar have learned to feed on fear, simply following victims in the shadows and mimicking them almost, but not quite perfectly. This cultivates great paranoia in victims, which they can then feast on.
Looking at how much they cut out of this game, and brought back in later games, makes me wonder just how much the later games changed, especially sun/moon, which are infamous for going thru development hell(maybe that's not the right word, but the "game" portion of the game is a mess, supposedly the trials were last minute additions, because they forgot they took out the gyms and needed something in their place, but were too busy adding more fucking cutscenes and lily scenes to notice)
Replies: >>130
>>58
Speaking of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, I saw something a while back that the Japan only Wiiware titles have been fan translated now. Not sure if they're good, but might be worth looking into for those that have been wanting more PMD.
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>>63
>Just the mention of Hypno will strike fear in any parent’s heart.
>>110
XY probably had a less bad development than DP, given that XY has severe performance issues as well, but wasn't delayed like DP. SM seems to have the ORAS team working on it for some reason, and they changed the engine entirely (I will admit it looks and runs a little less awful than Gen 6, although that could be because of the removal of stereoscopic 3D and anything more than double battles to include trainers on the battlefield). Then we have the mystery of if Z version was even a thing (a gap year on an anniversary just for Go is a little odd) and a different mystery about Home having strings of text referring to "omega_nx" and "alpha_nx" (Source: http://archive.is/TH4CY). I think SS's problems mostly come down to the fact that they couldn't get enough playtesting to make sure everything works right, so they decided to work on that for later updates but not tell us that was the plan because last time they did that Pokemon 2 as it was when they revealed it fell through and was almost completely changed. I say it's a playtesting problem because testing 1000 different models and thousands of moves to make sure everything doesn't crash or jank out is a monumental task and I'm not sure how much they learned since Gen 1 and 2 because leaked documents included in the source code made them seem really dismissive of any problems. They aren't Monolith Soft, who have enough employees to help every single Nintendo project (except Pokemon) and sometimes release a quality game of their own, plus years of experience fucking up and working in 3D while Game Freak only has experience fucking up. While I think Game Freak could have easily added the Kanto Pokemon as Let's Go uses a similar engine to SS (to the point where I consider Let's Go to be the first Gen 8 game) the engine differences between Gen 7 and 8 are significant enough that it would probably require way too much playtesting to come out for Holiday 2019 (which is even more important since Nintendo delayed Animal Crossing from then to spring). I 'd also like to note that most moves that were cut either had programming issues (Hidden Power still didn't have fairy, Sky Drop was notorious for being a bug in Gen 5, Return might have had problems since affection and friendship/happiness/whatever were merged) or were exclusive moves for Pokemon that were cut (two odd exceptions, Vespiquen lost some moves despite being in SS, and Klefki's Fairy Lock was left in despite it being cut, and it causes problems whenever it's called by Metronome because it has no animations associated with it). Game Freak has some serious problems and it's not all their fault, TPC probably demands new games out at a certain time (about twice a generation) to keep their marketing plans working. Third versions and remakes can be subline imprints but they need new product every 2-3-ish years. I said back on Fatchan that I'd rather see something like the Game Cube games rather than third versions or DLC, but DLC is probably better for GF creativity wise. I also mentioned on Fatchan that it seems like they're actually making some new content for the DLC, major exception likely being the recycling of minor league gym leaders (Source: https://pastebin.com/dNChixb0 specifically ## CRASH TRAINER CLASSES ##). The DLC could also keep TPC off their backs, as I've theorized that next year will also have two DLCs (I also think they'll add back megas and Z-moves as the selling/plot points but whatever). If they can squeeze out a Sinnoh remake in 2022 instead of a new game on the probably dying Switch, they could be at a better point to make a new game after a gap year. Or they'll put it out close to the launch of the Switch's successor and have to update the game to unfuck it, that seems to be what everybody else is doing these days.
(also, source for the article you mentioned: http://archive.is/3zhwj search debugging phase)
Replies: >>134
>>130
the only thing I remember about xy was that it's story was a mess. it was much more ambitious, the villain was supposed to be the "professor" and vice versa, and fairy type pokemon were supposed to be aliens(only remnant of that is the fairy type gym leader, that has the ayy lmao eyes). The story was also originally much more ambitious, with it being about fairy type invasion of the pokemon world, a plot that was later recycled for the Sun and Moon games, particularly the Ultra Games
>sword and shield
it's a disaster. I don't even care about it, a pokemon game without all the pokemon, and fucking DLC packs(Which are just cut pokemon/locations) isn't a pokemon game at all. Plus, the story and game world is even blander than in XY, with the gameplay even easier and more mainstreamed. The game went thru an even bigger developmental hell than XY have, if that's any indication
Replies: >>143
>>134
I've heard about XY's story being different, but it was from a probably untrue rumor.
>Which are just cut pokemon/locations
As I mentioned, given how the DLC is all Wild Area, I feel like location-wise it's new content. And at least the Pokemon themselves are a free update for compatibility reasons, so you can haggle your way towards the actual new Pokemon and just import the old ones from Home (or via homebrew like I plan to when I eventually pirate the game, which depends on if they announce new DLC early 2021). I've never been too chuffed about difficulty in the main part of a Pokemon game, but I also think Pokemon should be the Kirby of JRPGs and it doesn't even remotely reach that point, the postgame has been really poor after Gen 5. Ironically USUM has one of the better ones if only for including what is essentially the Battle Factory, shame about the online implementation because the rest of it is pretty fucking great. Hell, USUM is pretty great in a lot of ways, a shame the actual main game is just SM with less Lillie (although even that's a small positive in my eyes).
Replies: >>146
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>>143
It's all content that should have made it's way to the main game on day 1. Every pokemon game has optional side areas that are only useful for rare pokemon, I'm not paying a total of 30$(For now) to access them(keep in mind, most people have multiple copies due to catching other version pokemon or due to 1 savefile limit, that's 30$ per copy)
Bringing in pokemon in "waves" is also retarded. Feels like the "Season" cancer all games have nowdays, I'm not gonna wait till season 6 or whatever, a year from now, just to import my bro, especially when hackers already ported over all the pokemon(and made nessa white, as she was meant to be)
Replies: >>152
>>146
>It's all content that should have made it's way to the main game on day 1
Arguably, although scheduling wise I can guarantee shit was pretty fucked. Just looking at the Wild Area makes me think they underestimated the amount of work that would take. It also makes me think that's the future of Pokemon in their eyes, which seems like a disaster in my opinion. Unironically Unova is probably the best designed region, given that the main game is fairly breezy but there's also a substantial amount of content, even during the main game. Easily comparable to Gen 1 in that regard, given how both games treat Surf. But back to the DLC, if they didn't try selling me new shit I guess I could live with small monthly updates adding more content. Splatoon and Animal Crossing have done that pretty well, even HAL got in on that with Kirby. Hell, I wouldn't mind paying for cut content if they polished it up really well and also added some extra stuff for free or otherwise, Monolith Soft did it for Xenoblade 2 and are doing it for the first Xenoblade's remake. Not that I bought Xenoblade 2 or Torna, way too easy to just pirate everything on the Switch.
>hackers already ported over all the pokemon
Last I saw they barely got Kanto Pokemon working, but I also haven't been keeping track since like early Febuary. All I know is Rei didn't post about it, and he's the only guy who was recruiting people.
>and made nessa white, as she was meant to be
Not sure if I care about Nessa, but I do like me some cute brown girls so I can't necessarily agree.
Replies: >>153
>>152
nah, a pokemon game without all the content isn't gonna work for me, especially if they will make me pay again a year later for the "special edition". fuck dlc and "season content" in pokemon games

I will agree with you there, tho: black/white 1 and 2, as well as platinum and HGSS were the peak of the franchise. I could argue that emerald was also great, but the console limitations put a dent on how much content was possible, unfortunately, still one of my favorites(along with GC games)
Replies: >>154
>>153
I understand your problem with content coming later, as a preservationist kind of guy that shit bugs me. Best case scenario you have a "Welcome Amiibo" situation where later printings at least have the update data for compatibility reasons. Ironically third versions did this concept much better, shame they've gone from inconsistent to non-existent, and it's also a shame that first versions sell so much better. Ironically paying 60 bucks for all four theoretical DLCs in the coming years would probably provide a little more content than your normal third version, but you'd have to have spent 60 bucks on the game in the first place so people who would have liked to wait get the shaft. Also, on a different post, doesn't the Switch's profile system let you have multiple saves in a way? That's actually an upgrade if that's the case, however roundabout and minor. I've got serious problems with Platinum in the same way you have problems with Emerald, Sinnoh isn't great to me and the Gen 4 engine is a real mess. Even HGSS, which I fucking love, still has slow HP drain for some reason. And just try playing multiplayer, it's a fucking nightmare, I did it when I was trying to get all the ribbons on a single Pokemon and the Multi Battle Tower took forever. As for the GC games, I've really wanted to see more alternative takes on the basic gameplay flow of Pokemon while keeping the mechanics mostly the same. I've got an idea for a fangame, but I'm very hesitant to talk about it for many reasons, despite writing up like half a game design document. I'll just say a mission based structure could be interesting.
Replies: >>158
>>154
I played platinum first, so that might have something to do with it, but I really don't have a problem with gen 4 being "slow". it's a turn based game, anyways, it shouldn't bother anyone, unless they're stallfags, and in that case, fuck em, they deserve it
Replies: >>160
>>158
I'm the kind of guy that thought framedrops during battles in Gen 6/7 were a problem, so it could just be me. But even moving around in DP (and to a lesser extent Platinum) feels really bad. If you haven't tried surfing in DP, I envy you because that shit is slow for no apparent reason (aside from maybe the 3D model you sit on causing slowdown somehow). I think there's a reason that HGSS had auto-run as a feature, aside from Morimoto caring about making the game more good and less bad at the same time. Again, back on Fatchan I talked about Matthew Matosis mentioning some advice from Shinji Mikami. The long and short of it is any change can make a game more good or less bad, and Pokemon has been rather lopsided. A lot of QoL changes, especially in SS, make the games less bad. But by making every new major thing an if rather than a yes, they keep making things less good as they made more good things. The good thing they lost this time was "having all the Pokemon at launch" which even Gen 3 had when they had no reason to include all them. I think that's what it comes down to. Masuda learned from Gen 1 and 2 that just releasing the game is good enough, since he brought the development of Gen 2 on track and it sold really well. Morimoto learned from Gen 1 and 2 that the little things and QoL is important, since Mew is the only reason Pokemon got popular and he managed to keep track of what moves actually do in Gen 2. Granted Morimoto has has had a game and engine to work off every time he directed, but only the director of B2W2 (Unno) overachived that hard. Iwao tried for USUM, but it's clear he had limited resources. It's why aside from two mini-games, an actual dungeon, and a few Gen 7-standard mostly empty rooms, it's all scripting stuff (sidequests and little cutscenes that flesh out the world) and re-using the Battle Tower data. It's also probably why they went with DLC this time, as that structure would let them make something good. I don't have to like it, and I don't have to buy it, but I get where they're coming from. And I'll probably pirate it just to see where they're going with all this, honestly seeing how the development goes and the result of it is almost more fun than the games at this point.
>>58
I hear they made a Rescue Team remake. Was it any good?
Replies: >>252
>>251
I haven't played it, or much of the original RT, but let me list some changes I noticed.
>Aesthetic overhaul that tries to make it look like the artwork, I dunno if it works
>IQ system has been replaced with something else that's kind of similar but not quite
>Added pre/evos for all Gen 1-3 Pokemon previously in the game, as well as made Lucario family playable
>No A attack, some other weird mechanical changes (I think during the story you have a better map but that changes in some optional dungeons?)
>From what I can tell, all the dungeons from the original including the downloadable ones
>Replaced walking around friend areas with menus, but instead of the boring bad menus from Super you instead have this art because the friend area system still limits what type of Pokemon you can recruit
https://imgur.com/a/LrKiNmQ
I'd say try the demo (or pirate it if you hacked your Switch)
Replies: >>287
>>252
I think they also added some kind of autoexplore? And Mega Evolution; there's a new item called an "Empowerment Seed" that works like an Awakening Emera.
WPWYF
MORE LIKE
WHICH POKEMON WOULD YOU friend
Replies: >>576
>>573
Sometimes I feel like if I were dropped into the Pokemon world, I'd be too autistic to actually catch any Pokemon. What I would probably do is sell Pokeballs, off the top of my head the only shop that specialized in that was Lumiose in XY. Yeah you can get the standard stuff at any Pokemart, and some of the more specialized stuff at some Pokemarts, but you can't really get all the stuff in one convenient place. If I can wheel and deal my way into some more custom Pokeballs (as an in canon example, Kurt's apricorn balls) that could be a good source of income. After all, in the Pokemon world, you're probably going to need to catch a Pokemon, which I guess contradicts my opening statement.
Replies: >>583 >>622 >>626
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>>576
Thats autistic. But I kinda like it.
>>576
How can you be too autistic to have a pet/hunt wild animals?
>>576
What are pokeballs even needed for, aside from big/aquatic pokemon? Small pokemon can just stay outside of the ball no problem as evident by Ash's Pikachu.

Do you think it's just a way to get fainted pokemon out of the way during battles? Imagine if you had to drag your pokemon off field whenever it faints.
>>626
Standard canon is that they "tag" the Pokemon as owned so that it can't just be caught by another trainer. (Outside of gizmos like the Snag Machine that bypass it.)
Replies: >>633
>>626
>>630
In the games it also seems to be useful for storage with the PC and healing at the Pokemon Center. It's basically useful if you want to stay on the grid. If you just want to be innawoods you don't necessarily need them. Hell, if you consider anime canon you can still probably jam them in a ball with a screw top.
Minor update, some Gen 3 development files leaked.
https://archive.org/details/gen3debugs
I've seen some mockups and code in there, check it out for yourselves, maybe you'll discover something really interesting.
Have any of you niggers played any romhacks/fangames that you would recommend, so far I only played only played insurgency.
>>58
I stopped playing Pokemon after ORAS after seeing and hearing some of the features within sun and moon I knew the series was going downhill sadly. I wish they went the Digimon route and just stop making their games for kids and start making them for teens and adults.
Replies: >>939 >>2203
>>879
I played Pokemon Wack Version a while back. It's... hard to describe. It has everything, basically. Every generation's Pokemon, leaked beta Pokemon, Mega Evolution (with any number of new Megas) as well as Dynamaxing, dozens of new types, lots of bad fan art Pokemon (including new evolutions for official Pokemon like Dunsparce and Audino), Digimon, Stands, and Bowser.
So what have people been pulling from the most recent source code leaks? I've dl'ed them but it looks to me like a bunch of files I can't open, or are password protected. I couldn't even find my way to those scratchpad files from the Gen 2 source code leaks;_;
Replies: >>1374
>>1373
god fucking damn it i forgot this is how you spoiler here
Replies: >>1375
>>1374
It's a little complicated, honestly. Thankfully TCRF seems to be putting that shit up on their site.
https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver
It's still not done yet though. If you mean the Gen 1 stuff, they have a little more work on that done given Helix Chamber had that information for way longer, on similarly named pages. If you mean the Gen 3 stuff people are still looking through it, and it's very clear we not only don't have everything from RS's development, but also from the leaker at this point. The most interesting stuff seems to be partial Pokdex/evolution/moveset date, but I can't read Japanese.
Replies: >>8938
And DP source leaked too, some development documentation in there.
https://archive.org/details/sinnohfetusesriseup
Replies: >>2192
>>2181
>dp source leak 
REPORTED TO THE FBI
>>879
As far as fangames go Insurgence is one of the better ones. Reborn, Rejuvenation, etc. have interesting field effects that add onto the battle system but also come with a lot of retardedness.
ROMhacks are a lot more plentiful but a lot of romhackers are obsessed with either porting games between gens or making improvement type hacks. Most of the ones that add in new regions, forms, etc. are either garbage or stuck in dev hell.
As far as recommendations go, Adventure Red, Vega, Gaia are all pretty good though Gaia's going to get one last update "soon" so you might want to wait for that.
Replies: >>2218
>>2203
I'd add Orange to the recs. While it's unfinished (apparently the author has the rest of the game and post-game mostly worked out, but is waiting for some other team to provide a new codebase for some features like alternate forms), the current beta (up to gym 3 out of 4) is excellent.
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Gonna make sure this doesn't fall off the board. As part of a dive into the source code, someone found that certain dates in DPP increase encounter rates while others (including 9/11) decrease it. 

https://twitter.com/shinyhunter_map/status/1266497171874029571
https://archive.fo/ZcHMI
Replies: >>8924 >>8981
My ID probably changed on me because it's been almost a month, but I mentioned earlier I wanted to make a Pokemon fangame. The project will probably take forever (or until it's revealed a prototype version of a grass starter has a different final evolution, whichever comes first) so I'm thinking less about what's a good choice in the moment and instead what's a good long term investment. For that reason, I'm ruling out Pokemon Essentials. It's old, not regularly updated, and shockingly slow, which leaves the only advantage of lots of documentation. On the other hand, the more recent PSDK seems to have a lot more promise. It's under active development, has a decent suite of features so far, but lacks a lot of documentation, especially not in French. As somebody who has no fucking idea what they're doing, this is a bit of a problem. I'm also not sure how much it relies on or interacts with RPG Maker, it's not super clear to me. Beyond the obvious reasons, there's a .dll that has some Mode 7-like features, and I think that's neat and will be useful for a few areas of the game. If I'd have to figure out how to do that shit from scratch, or if I ever actually get a team together (which I probably will) and have to force somebody to do that, I'd feel bad either way. I guess I'm wondering if anybody has any tips about PSDK? Or have none of you heard of it and I'm talking crazy talk?
>>8874
>As part of a dive into the source code, someone found that certain dates in DPP increase encounter rates while others (including 9/11) decrease it. 
You would expect it would increase the encounter rate with Flying-type pokemon.
>>1375
I can explain the old data for gen 3; it seems that the only veritably "cut" mon is a pure fire type, with a pretty generic ability(Flame Body) and a pretty generic set of names "Kaen" and "Kaen'ou".
The leaked dexes do not make sense for the final mons though, sceptile seems to have been a fossil mon at one point but was just copied over to the starter part.
Lots of things imply Chimecho was actually a really early mon, despite being placed at the literal end of the internal dex.
Dustox was Flying/Bug, and nothing about it really implies a proper link to the moth idea. Rayquaza is pure flying and his dex says he's white; he's literally called the white dragon pokemon. His dex or the placement of said dex do not match a legendary either.
Altaria is called "Rairai" which might imply it was a thundercloud instead; though none of its other data implies a different design. Makuhita was apparently the huge power mon at one point and the medis were mono fightingand Meditite has water absorb for some reason.
Salamence may have started off without the flying gimmick, or its placeholder. Early Cradily has a strange name for what it is "Fossil King", armaldo doesn't really work with the names of his slots either.
Plusle and Minun were apparently an evo chain. Ralts line seemed to be more flower based. Spinda started as the "tap dance pokemon" seemingly.and had actual stats, i have no idea why it became so lazy in the end; it might have also been lotads evo. Weird pokemon exist in dex entries and the list that we have literally goes from "nearly everything is placeholder" to final; meaning the list isn't too great for figuring out cut mons or drastic shifts.
A lot of abilities in the early list seem like they were there for testing though, some fit the mon too well though; like shadow tag banette.who ironically at the time had a name that Wobb had in the prototype stages.
Most mons have placeholder stats, though some have close to final statsthough it comes with stuff like the latis having pretty broken stats, or stuff like Linoone managing to be even worse.
Replies: >>8939
>>8938
>Lots of things imply Chimecho was actually a really early mon, despite being placed at the literal end of the internal dex.
Minor correction, it seems that's just the cry index. Which makes me think for some reason somebody was really autistic about getting the bell sample just right about it. On the topic of "instrument" cries, I know for a fact that Electivire has a guitar sample as it's cry, as an example.
Replies: >>8942
>>8939
The changlog and final game also have the pokemon data smacked in the end. The early dex does have chimecho placed pretty early though.
Like even the pre-change changeglog had chimecho sitting at the end ahead of empty data, that shows deoxys was the last mon to be implemented to any extent.

Its not uncommon for games to use "instrument" synths for other sounds when only synths really.
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>>8874
Replies: >>9356
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEVctuQTeaI&feature=youtu.be
Well we'll be getting more disappointment soon. Probably just DLC news and maybe the grand return of Sleep.At best it'll announce another spin-off title i suppose.

>>8981
Classy ain't it.
Replies: >>9678 >>9683
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https://archive.fo/0tla5
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>>9569
So if I'm reading this right, there's no excuse for there not to be every mon in there, they planned to leave Pokemon out for the DLC?
Replies: >>9628
Does anyone know if a download for Pokemon Sword& Shield exists on Perfect Dark? Or any switch games, for that matter? I can't say I found any but I might not have been searching for it correctly.
>>9613
Pretty much considering the whole DLC was planned during development.
Replies: >>9766
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Shit, I didn't see this thread.
>>63
>While Onix form subterranean tunnels dozens of meters below the surface, Steelix have been recorded to dig out trails nearly a kilometer underground. The immense pressure of the earth above at this level can crush most living organisms. However, their bodies are in fact harder than diamond, compressed by the extreme pressure of their habitats. A common legend is that Onix living to be over 100 years will have experienced enough force to compress their bodies and become Steelix. In the wild, scientists believe that age has little to do with their evolutions; Onix evolve into Steelix as they eat through rock and absorb the iron within. Combined with intense pressure, their bodies eventually turn dense and metallic (such a process can be domestically replicated with Metal Coats). Their eyes are adapted to see in the dark, and their strong jaws can crunch through even the hardest boulders. Their bodies are speckled with thousands of tiny, reflective particles from the minerals they eat. These particles sparkle beautifully in the sun.
Actually explains their flattened heads.
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PMD is boring and archaic. Every game story is the same conceptually. The dungeon crawling is too basic. It lacks the complexity of the original Pokemon games. People that claim the franchise is better than the maingames I feel have never played a single other dungeon crawler in their life. There's not even a PvE/PvP element to those games like in the original Pokemon. It's essentially just an auto battler. I do not see the appeal. The franchise hasn't innovated at all since its initial conception. The story is the same. The game plays itself. The genre is highly competitive so better alternatives exist in my opinion.

I hope I'm wrong. Clearly I'm not as informed as someone who's done nothing but play PMD his entire life. Is there any reason to play PMD over any other MD-esque game? There's so much alternatives out there it's a question I feel I need more concrete opinions on. I'm not saying the games can't be good. But to claim they're better than Pokemon is simply false. They've never been and never would even be Pokemon games if they didn't lift the designs from the original games. I think that counts for something.
Replies: >>9653
>>9649
Most PMD are pretty much baby MD yeah. But its not auto battler tier, outside of the remake; which has a literal function for it on top of a pretty easy game.
I do like how the remake actually does try to match the games better with making moves the only basic attack option, even if the game bedshits basically everywhere else
"Better than the main game" isn't anything resembling an achievement considering pokemon can't even use its mechanics for the actual game to any notable degree.
>Every game story is the same conceptually.
I mean besides the opening, this is more of a side effect of stakes needing to exist; so there tends to be an evil/rival team and something apocalyptic is at the end.
Not exactly weird for a series to repeat those beats.
Replies: >>9654
>>9653
All PMD have you as a human trapped inside a pokemon right? I'm not referring to conflict. Every story has that.
Replies: >>9655
>>9654
Yes the basic premise is that a human wakes up as a pokemon and is found by another pokemon who wants to join a rescue team; they form a rescue team and then the human thing might be relevant.
The original had a lot of focus on the human thing but later on its just the general opening, the human from D/T/S even comes from the pokemon world unlike the first game; their backstory would literally be no different if it was just general amnesia.
The point is that its window dressing in most MDs.
Replies: >>9657 >>9658
>>9655
My point was that it doesn't help the games feel less samey than they already are. I don't feel like the developers experimented with their franchise. No experimentation leads to no innovation and no innovation leads to a stagnated dull experience. Doesn't help that I feel personally dungeon crawlers were made to be played multiplayer. There's just something about dying very deep in together with a couple of friends. Is there anything in MD that isn't window dressing?
Replies: >>9659 >>12784
>>9655
I wish that PMD would actually address what's up with humans in their universe, I remember a quick mention that they were rare to see around or something but that's it. It'd make for a pretty refreshing plot since in theory the two groups should be around the same level of intelligence as opposed to the rest of the media in this franchise.
Replies: >>9659
>>9657
Generally the rest of the plot. My point about the human thing is that outside of the first game, its functionally only an intro plot; like first dungeon and then it might be brought up as a sidenote.
Thinking MD is best multiplayer is an opinion i haven't seen before. Can't say i agree but tastes are tastes.
Most of the game isn't window dressing, the human thing is practically one of the few cases.

>>9658
Yeah the human thing is just really glossed over.
I wanna replay the entire pokemon series soon, starting with gen 3. I've spent my childhood playing gen 1 and 2 but didn't play the later ones much and never tried the really new ones.
>>54 (OP) 
The source code is really interesting. Not that it wasn't decompiled a million times already, but it's interesting to see how they did it originally. Haven't had time to look at it yet though.
Replies: >>9678
>>9356
Just a reminder that thats happening soon.

>>9674
Right, just a small reminder that DP and RS are really bad. Like DP is more of a mechanical issue but RS is just really poorly designed.
I'd also say ORAS is pretty not worth it. What it adds doesn't really amount to much of worth, and it doesn't fix the game like emerald.
Its pretty much RS but with a bunch of shit on top of it featuring the flaws that it gained from XY. The only reason it ever gained praise was for mechanics that cut down grinding or for its autistic looking redesigns.the only reason the RSE magma admins didn't really work was because they were small sprites, if they stayed the same the issue wouldn't even persist.
Also the online but that shit literally comes from XY.

While people don't really like XY, it does start out feeling okay. Drops to probably the worst quality in terms of trainer design pretty quickly though.
Its a really funny experience in terms that it feels like it should have been another DP in terms of being a game that just needed another draft; Z is a idea brought up quite a lot for a reason.

SM has reasons for being so detracted from, but its got some unique ideas to show at least. USUM does more of the same, so if you don't want more i'd suggest skipping it.
/ss/ is pretty hard to describe, its basically a game that drags you  for dialogue a lot but basically none of it ends up being of worth, SM had a similar issue but SM actually had a story for most of it; /ss/s story comes out of nowhere last second basically.
Replies: >>9683
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>>9356
>>9678
Well they certainly put quite a few things in it i suppose.
Replies: >>9701 >>9766 >>9769
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>>9683
>new Pokemon Snap that isn't a mobile game
Replies: >>9704
>>9701
Honestly I'm a little fucking amazed that it isn't an expansion to Pokemon Go, that seemed like the most obvious thing. Just an AR game where you point your phone camera and the game overlays animated Pokemon over the real world. They could even get cute about AI that detects lines and contours, and put appropriate Pokemon in appropriate poses -- like for example a Spinarak climbing up the wall of a building.
Replies: >>9726
>>9704
That Koffing inside the jewseum was as cute as it gets, anon.
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>>9726
Nah, best was the crusader jigglypuff removing faggots from the westboro baptist church.
Replies: >>9764
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>>9749
>Even the gayest Pokemon doesn't like fags
>>9628
So all of the excuses from the shills, at least the ones that weren't immediately known to be bullshit (small indie company etc.) were ALSO complete bullshit? Color my ass shocked. This would be forgiveable if it was something like "These Pokemon were not catchable prior to this DLC" as opposed to "THESE FUCKING MONS AINT IN HERE AT ALL"

>>9683
Bets on what the second update is gonna be about?
>>9683
>new Pokemon Snap
Neat
>didn't start trailer with "Welcome Back!"
You were close!

http://invidio.us/watch?v=o1DIyHkQlRs
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What do you guys think about the new moves? Water type U-Turn and Ground type Scald is a little worrying and most of these moves look pretty situational.
Replies: >>9774 >>9885
>>9771
The moves are becoming so homogenized now. I preferred when types had more unique movesets, instead of just copying a move concept and changing the types around. It may not have been balanced all the time but it gave the types a lot more character.
Replies: >>10206
>>9771
They're all situational trash with 90% acc. Also they're gonna give the fairy explosion to all the trash "trick room and sit pretty in a corner" mon so they become two button pokemon instead of 1 button pokemon, which is terrible.
Replies: >>9890
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>>63
>When a thunderstorm is approaching, many Togedemaru will venture out into the open with their fur bristled, waiting patiently to be struck by bolts of lightning. They can also siphon electricity from other Electric-types using their spikes. Togedemaru store gathered electricity in electrical sacs within their bodies for use when protecting themselves. While they can generate their own electricity to a limited extent, the bulk of their charge is gathered during lightning storms. Predators that are foolish enough to attack curled-up Togedemaru will not only be pierced by their fourteen sharp spikes, but also be shocked as they let loose stored electricity. Togedemaru are known to share electricity with one another by directly shocking each other’s lightning rods and charging each other’s electrical sacs.

This thing is the best thing ever it saved gen 7 and all of pokemon by itself I love it.
>>9885
Trick room is more of a psychic thing, and your a retard if you actually run a support mon without support moves. Explosion Brozong was never good.
Most of the moves are good for one reason or another, or would be good if they had users that wanted then in some cases. Except for bug/poison/fighting, i cannot understand why the former two would get nothing but whatever.
Especially in doubles, the terrain moves are super good. I'll never understand gamefreaks fetish for 90 accuracy though.
Replies: >>9904
>terrain terrain terrain
Is this what Pokemon is like now? Is it all about terrain?
Replies: >>9904 >>10282
>>9890
>the terrain moves are super good
Only shitmons will get them.

>>9898
What of it?
Replies: >>9906
>>9904
Such shitmons such as the terrain setters.which to be fair one of them definitely is
Most of them are attached to most mons of their type. As a point that only just occurred to me, lash out is obviously meant for the current bulldoze spam strat.

Most of the tutors have a pretty huge range of mons.mostly of their type obviously
>>9774
The mons are getting homogenized as well. Everything gets SD. Everything gets NP. Every fairy gets Mystical Fire. Remember when Mismagius was notable for getting lots of weird coverage with NP? When Hydreigon was strong but couldn't boost? It's not even fucking the balance over (GF was always too incompetent for proper balance) but it's making the game incredibly bland.
Replies: >>10281 >>14969
>>10206
They certainly are but i'd say Hydreigon deserved something like nasty plot.
Unlike a lot of its other new users like zam and rotomthough i like the other forms actually being good for once or gengar.
Hydreigon was pretty awkward, he wasn't super amazing even before getting a pretty crippling X4 weakness.

The game was always clearly dragging towards this point though. A lot of mons were already "everything" mons.
While nasty plot was pretty niche, other move combos just managed it instead for a decent amount of time before.
>>9898
You wish. That would involve completely rewriting the entire game system to accommodate for environmental factors. Then you might be able to light a tree on fire and kick it at your enemy, and that might actually be fun.
We can't have that.
Replies: >>10291
>>10282
More like the thing you just suggested would be a nightmare for even a hyper competent dev to have in something like pokemon.
Much less absolute retards like gamefreak. Its very blatant ideafagging that wouldn't translate to gameplay.
Does remind me that XY did have background objects that did stuff based on battles though, that could have become something if they didn't drop it basically instantly.

And gamefreak have nothing against random over the top mechanics; just so happens that no matter what a game has it'll be shit if the trainer and route design is dogshit.
They certainly aren't anti fun; just lazy and incompetent.
Replies: >>10309
>>10291
>More like the thing you just suggested would be a nightmare for even a hyper competent dev to have in something like pokemon.
Not really, they'd have to write a whole new engine for it but it's far from even being innovative. You'd need a battle system that was fluid with the environment so your battles don't go into a pocket dimension like in Final Fantasy. This is only as demanding as you want it to be, since you can implement the battle moves interacting with the environment piecemeal. You could have one or two tree models that have the same color motifs and shape so it's obvious that they are a gameplay device. Then if you have a battle near that tree (let's say there's an arbitrary circle which is the "battle area"), there would be an option to use it, or maybe specific moves would take advantage of the tree when you choose them. It's as simple as "if zone contains tree, move does thing," so as long as you can get the seamless battles thing in you're good
Replies: >>10315 >>11974
>>10309
Except most pokemon moves would be a meme and a half interacting with a tree. You'd be unable to even make most types have a reasonable interaction.
Yes it'd be easy to make it so blaze kick can hit background trees. It would be a dumb gimmick used rarely, when you were promoting it as a major mechanic; i wasn't talking about the idea of just tree kicking.

The entire point was a background system, and you choose a super in-depth example implying combos and such; leaving the implication that you thought a game with a shitload of moves and different bodies monsters could easily have those types of things be commonplace.
Replies: >>10337 >>11974
>>10315
I'm not sure how you would have got a "super in-depth example" from what me or the other guy described. I was thinking of simply a pool of moves are tied with a specific terrain piece for a modified effect. Trees were just an example of one of those effects. If trees are there, then maybe Roost, Vine Whip, and Cut have different effects, but if there's a pond then maybe a different group of moves are changed, or maybe stalactites or anything else you could think of. It might require a lot of tedious work, but it doesn't require any special competency or innovation. It's just a group of terrain flags which in turn flag additional move effects when present. More assets and data does not equate to more skill required, just more hours worked.

>bodies of monsters
Huh? Who cares about that? You're thinking way more in-depth than anything I had imagined or was mentioned. Body types have never mattered in Pokemon for anything but weight for one or two moves and breeding. I was thinking a simple "move does slightly enhanced/different effect in presence of terrain marker" system. That way it's relatively easy to implement while still adding an interesting gameplay element which isn't just "Time to set up using my generic terrain move."
Replies: >>10345
>>10337
Yeah your original one certainly didn't sound that way in the slightest.
Moves doing extra due to random shit in the area wouldn't wind up to be much.
In fact i remember some fangame or some shit making moves do extra random shit in terrain; it just made them feel retardedly cluttered.

It'd either be something shuffled into the corner doing jack shit or end up extremely similar. Terrain being something you run into sometimes naturally was a thing gen 8 did anyway.
> Body types have never mattered in Pokemon for anything but weight for one or two moves and breeding.
Body types have jack shit to do with breeding. However my point was in regards to general actions or moves, which once again the very animated sounding "kick a tree" would involve such.
Replies: >>10347
>>10345
I was referring to egg groups which have generic "body types" in their descriptions.
Replies: >>10349
>>10347
Not that i can remember, i suppose there's humanlike but otherwise?even then its not like all "human shaped" mons are in that group
There is that little body shape thing in the dex but thats just flavor.
Replies: >>10350
>>10349
There's one for fish-like, one for dragon-shaped (i.e. lizard with wings), I believe there is also at least one for generic quadraped "beast" mons, and one for amorphous shapes. I always thought it was grouped by appearance/physiology.
Replies: >>10357
>>10350
Yeah well thats not what the breeding pool is. Merely flavor.
Egg groups give no shits in regards to similar body plans. The eternal Whale+Cat combo because field is a stupidly wide group.

There isn't a dragon one by the way. Wasn't that symbol bipedal looking?Apparently it sorta was and then became a pig with wings.
Replies: >>10361
>>10357
There is a dragon egg group. Charizard is in it, as well as Dragonite, Salamence, Arbok (because serpent, I guess?), Hydreigon, Gyarados and Seadra (Maybe seahorses being dragons is an Asian thing) among others. It's pretty fast and loose obviously but it's something of a body type descriptor.
Replies: >>10362
>>10361
I can't say i agree with calling that a coherent "body group" but whatever. Dragon literally has normal lizards, bats and a bipedal turtle.
>Maybe seahorses being dragons is an Asian thing
There is literally a type of seahorse called a seadragon, Kingdra is literally just a seadragon design wise. Same with design idea behind Dragalge.
Replies: >>11820
Pokemon Presents tomorrow morning. 9AM Eastern 6 Pacific. What do you think the new project will be? I've heard it might be gachashit
Replies: >>11808
>>11772
Gachashit or some other crappy mobile app.
>>10362
The next time you use the word literally, you should step back and consider if you really need to specify that what you wrote wasn't figurative. Do this, and you won't have to look like a fool from now on.
Replies: >>11916
Anyway yeah it was the tencent pokemon game for 11 minutes. Their big project is LoL Pokemon or some shit.

>>11820
>Do this, and you won't have to look like a fool from now on.
Oh no someone on the internet thinks i'm an idiot, truely i'll change my ways. Worthless words don't exactly matter on small posts; they'd be pretty bad on a longer one but i actually check over those.
Replies: >>12075
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>>10309
>>10315
>You'd be unable to even make most types have a reasonable interaction.
It's tedious, but doable. I wrote up exactly that and it's only 20 pages long. You are correct, though - coding anything like this would be a huge pain in the ass, which is why I stopped playing Pokemon vidya 5 years ago.
Replies: >>12071
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It's Pokemon assfaggots, made by Tencent.
What, you thought it couldn't get worse? There's your big announcement, assholes.
Tencent, everyone's favorite corporation, is making Pokemon Unite, a gay LoL clone for mobile and Switch.
The trailer had a bunch of comments criticizing Tencent and explaining the situation, but all of those comments (((coincidentally))) disappeared.
>>11974
Yeah its possible in a technical sense but i was moreso meaning in regards to the original context; where a game like pokemon could realistically even get the time to make such a system in any way functional in any fun way.
Suppose it'd be an actual excuse to cut down the game though, unlike what /ss/ did.

>>12063
Yeah i'm pretty bemused they dropped that fucking low, quite amazing that GF actually managed to drop lower than basically no expectations.
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>>11916
>>12063
I actually like the fact that the game isn't about destroying a giant building, I think that's a big part of why ASSFAGGOTS are terrible and tedious. Any game with matchmaking that doesn't have a time limit on its game mode is bound to be shit due to the nature of other retards playing the game. But it looks like a brain dead game where you just mash all of your buttons when they come off cooldown, and it's fucking Tencent. Funny preview, though.
>entire team gangbangs Venosaur the moment he respawns
>"What an exciting game! I didn't know who was going to win until the last moment!"
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>>12063
The drop in quality was one thing, but selling out to China is the true sound of hitting bottom. Abandon all dreams of a proper Gen 4 remake, go to your old titles and hug them tight. Maybe start a fresh replay and remember better times.
Replies: >>12705
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>>12156
>Main series: DLC
>Mystery Dungeon: P2W DLC
>Non-PMD spinoffs: Baddy Bad
>Entire franchise: Tencent ASSFAGGOTS
>>9657
Game freak do a shit load of experimentation with pokemon just in the entirely wrong direction. They experiment with novelty gimmicks instead of building on the core idea.

Isle of armor is a clear step forward but it's so lazy it's hard to give a fuck. Need six dojo trainees? We made 2 and copied them 3 times each. Need to use a move relearner? Sorry we made the dojo healing point a single door and it's got cosmetics over actual useful shit so go sit through 2 loading screens and fast travel.

Pokemon is the most underutilized concept ever. It's a perfect concept that's stagnated and died since it hit the GBA. It started to get downright crappy on the DS when they made black/white which forced story in your face so hard it's derailed the core concept since. Now pokemon games are final fantasy with a large team selection and that's all they're going to be unless they stop selling 10 million a release. Which they won't because Nintoddlers can't give up their cummies.
Replies: >>12898 >>13222
>>12784
>Now pokemon games are final fantasy with a large team selection
As somebody who's favorite FF is 5 and favorite Pokemon games are Gen 5 I fucking wish both franchises stuck with that. Unfortunately now FF is an action game, and not even a good one, and Pokemon can't even meet a standard of quality of a GBA game half the time. I still prefer the direction Pokemon has gone though, if it turned into some generic  Skyrim shit I'd probably just burn everything. What do you think Pokemon need to do?
Replies: >>13222 >>13316
>>12784
>>12898
Gamefreak is a terrible developer, Genius Sorority who made the Colesseum games and Battle Revolution were far more competent. They're only now doing with Sw/Sh doing what has been done in Colesseum more than ten years ago, and badly at that. Considering one bomb was all it took for The Pokemon Company to push GS to making trozei clones, maybe Gamefreak will finally get the stick and they'll consider other options going forward. They've just gotten too damn complacent and lazy, secure in their yearly release cash cow milking.
Replies: >>13360
>>12898
Pokemon needs to become Breath of the wild where you capture pokemon and use them to explore. It's the only way to take the series forward but also backwards to it's roots. Make it about a kid going on an adventure and bug catching instead of a railroad of dialog boxes.

I don't want skyrim from pokemon but it's clear the small paths in 3D areas doesn't work. It's done like a PSP game was which were always heavily limited by the tech. Pokemon needs a hard reboot, to cut away a bunch of pokemon (We don't need 10 different pidgeys, I'm okay with losing even the ones I like) and go back to being about monster catching. You could easily take isle of armor, make it in the BOTW engine and get a solid game out of it. You can still do turn based battles but instead of taking them out of the map do them there. If you touch a pokemon your following pokemon charges and intercepts. You jump back and it goes into the standard battle camera pan until the fights over. Even get to include terrain like using an electric pokemon to shock a puddle.
Replies: >>13360
>>13316
As somebody who only likes BowW's mechanical depth and prefers the first game's progression as open world games go, I feel like we need to reconsider some things. Firstly, the anon above you pointed out two important things.
>Game Freak is incompetent
>Despite poaching several developers for Genius Sonority, they still can't beat the GC games in some areas
I'm one of the few people who actually liked GS's Denpa Men games, so maybe there's some bias here, but I feel like it's actually the limits that gave the player challenge in the Game Cube titles. I personally have pushed for things like mission based structure or the overhaul of the HM/Ride system into an entire job and sidequest system (Game Freak actually got halfway there in SS which fucking surprises me). As for side paths, I personally think Gen 5 handled them alright, but handled optional content really well. Like, I'm talking Gen 1-ish level. Before surf, you only have like two little options, but after it you get a lot more. Which game was I talking about there? Both. I kind of feel like 3D was a mistake when it comes to Pokemon, even going back to DP somehow running awfully (I can't explain how slow the game is any other way).
>>13222
Argument about TPC intentionally fucking up GS aside (I don't have enough evidence either way, but I'd believe it), Game Freak isn't lazy. Do you know a developer who can make an RPG with like 1000 non-random characters on a toy shilling marketing scheme schedule? I certainly fucking don't. Game Freak just so happen to be one particularly awful choice. Even during Game Boy days they weren't the most competent team, and it's clear they've not gotten much better. I'd even go out on a limb and say it's a miracle they do as much as they manage, but with SS their slightly botched attempt at the Wild Area came at the cost of all the Pokemon at launch, and I'd personally rather have the latter because I fucking hate open world as a concept. Like, why would a lazy developer make an entire new system attached to the old ribbon system in the form of marks nobody cares about, or make a second kind of shiny animation? That's not lazy, that's confused priorities.
>>13360
>Do you know a developer who can make an RPG with like 1000 non-random characters on a toy shilling marketing scheme schedule? 
I doubt its hard to do a glorified port like /ss/, the majority of the game is recycled assets or of insanely low quality.
While XY or SM clearly have huge work put into them considering time scale, /ss/ is very much nothing outside of a half baked concept that had most of its code done in a game right before it.
Replies: >>13595
>>13360
They should save the 3D graphics for Let's Go games, where stuff like not having all the Pokemon would be acceptable. Streamlined movesets, handholding, and flashy gimmicks du jour belong in spinoffs, not the main games. The main games need to be a solid foundation that everything else can build off of. They need to focus more on giving those games actual substance.
Replies: >>13370
>>13360
Gen 1 isn't that linear, it just uses a location to branch out. After Viridian forest, which is mostly linear it makes caves be real dungeons. You take wrong turns and explore to find your way out. In SS it's linear all the way and then you find a bike which lets you branch off and find at most a hidden lake. GF are scared of players getting lost and not playing the game any more. 

>game freak aren't lazy
>DLC uses the same 2 models for 6 people for its entire post game and most of the story.
They're lazy in multiple areas. 
>Can't animate handing over items
>Uses black screen to say an apple hits you on the head instead of animating it

>>13369
Just make a universal library for all pokemon developers to use like they do the box sprites. Update everything as needed and have everyone use the same resource. Digimon does that and it allows them to makes consistent games with much smaller budgets.
Replies: >>13595 >>15029
>GF are scared of players getting lost and not playing the game any more. 
>In a game where you're encouraged to explore every nook and cranny searching for pokemans to fill out your pokedex
>>13360
>Do you know a developer who can make an RPG with like 1000 non-random characters on a toy shilling marketing scheme schedule?
They introduce around 100 pokemon each generation, with the most being 156 in Gen 5, which marked Pokemon games getting bigger budgets as usual. A lot of the new pokemon in that game were not designed by Ken Sugimori (since he's getting on in years, age fifty-four at the time of this writing,) though he was the art director, and thats why the reception of new designs was rather mixed. Saying GF has to come up with one-thousand new characters each game isn't true, they only come up with one-hundred twelve on average. Infact, /ss/ has the lowest amount of new pokemon, eighty-six, though I expect that more will be released in patches as seems to be the trend. Right now, however, GF seems perfectly content on selling DLC to include pokemon from previous generations along with a handful of new ones mixed in.
Replies: >>13595
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>>13368
>I doubt its hard to do a glorified port like /ss/, the majority of the game is recycled assets or of insanely low quality.
You say that, and yet Game Freak fucked up SM by not basing Gen 7's engine off Gen 6 (and again, SM's trials had to be done during the debugging phase what the shit), and SS also used Let's Go's engine. Not to mention who the fucks knows what else they tried. I think I mentioned earlier but ORAS might have been test-ported to Switch. The Wild Area looks like it has a lot of work into it (by GF standards anyway), and they said as much that was their focus, the DLCs being just that only re-enforces that.
>>13370
Isle of Armor started development late in SS's development. Given they didn't say anything about updates adding in Pokemon at E3 last year when they really needed to announce that, development probably didn't properly start until after June some time. Given the smaller team for half of it's development while SS finished up, the fact that they had to use the SS engine, which might not even be capable of that shit, and their general fucking up (just today they released a raid with an item that isn't properly in the game, so it has a chance of crashing) I feel that's about GF standard. For comparison, Platinum released 2 years after DP and it still kind of ran like garbage, but HGSS came out a year later and managed to be mostly fine. In addition, I'm pretty sure they do have a library, but I'm also pretty sure it's a goddamn mess as they probably only learned so much since we've last seen their source code. Again, they accidentally left Fairy Lock without any associated animations, so Metronome could crash the game.
>>13467
>A lot of the new pokemon in that game were not designed by Ken Sugimori
Are you a brainlet? Ken hasn't been the sole designer since early Capsule Monsters, pic related. Here's an actual confirmed list with sources on who designed what.
https://gfworks.github.io/designer.html
If you notice, Atsuko Nishida designed most of the most popular Pokemon, although I will admit Ken tended towards kaiju-ish designs early on, if that's your argument.
>Saying GF has to come up with one-thousand new characters each game isn't true
I feel like I've said this before, but maybe not in this thread. The biggest problem isn't necessarily implementation, although given they changed 3D model formats and switched to new hardware I can't write that off entirely. The real problem is testing. Arguably more important than 1000 characters is thousands of different moves. Hell, in Gen 1 almost all the major problems with the game that you'll experience (if not notice) in a normal playthrough comes down to moves acting fucky. They certainly keep better track of it now, Morimoto learned his lesson after Gen 1, but the problem is that you have to make sure every move has its correct statistical effects, animation effects, and associated with the right animation for every Pokemon that calls it (theoretically, I hope the latter is based off if the move is physical or special given how limited their animation options are). Now, I don't know how much work that is, but there's only 7 people credited with anything to do with battles in SS, so either they're understaffed or it's easier than I'm making it out to be. This isn't even getting into mapping or scripting related shit for everything outside of battles. I don't know much about just like make game, but I know that shit isn't easy. I know I keep saying GF needs to keep up with a toy shilling marketing scheme schedule, but given how Gen 1's development went and how long it took I'm not even sure that's actually true. It seems like every time they do something good it's a fluke, and their lack of commitment to making any particular change permanent just says to me they keep getting ideas they can't implement and try to skimp out in other areas. That's not lazy, that's poor management. Let's compare Pokemon development to something like Monolith Soft. Xenoblade 2 took 2 and a half years of development, give or take, didn't have anything to go off of like X did aside from maybe some monster design related assets, and while Monolith's staff is a lot larger most of them had to help Nintendo with Breath of the Wild and like every other game Nintendo was making at the time. Xenoblade also generally has bigger scale when it comes to maps, compared to a lot of other games, although 2 feels a lot smaller than the other games. They've also had a long history of fucking up and making games in 3D before Xenoblade came out. All that being said, while Xenoblade 2 came out mostly fine, the day one menus were fucking atrocious, and being an RPG and given Xenoblade 2's mechanics that's a big fucking problem. If one of Nintendo's best developers in one of the best situations still manages to have a minor problem, how do you expect the constant fuckup that's Game Freak to manage something on par with anything reasonable? Do I even need to bring up the fact that the wizards at HAL couldn't even get Kirby to run at 60 FPS on Switch AND intentionally released a boss that makes the frame-rate chug dicks?
Replies: >>13602 >>13756
>>13595
SS isn't using the lets go engine. If you play Su/Mo then lets go they feel very similar. SS feels way smoother and doesn't have the frame rate drops. It isn't until isle of armor you see the weird ai freezes return where the AI takes a few seconds to pick a move to use. There's definitely major differences in the engine.

>They didn't announce DLC day 1
Nintendo never does. It announces the DLC a while later so it's fanboys can viral market the game twice. Announcing there will be a DLC is a good way to get fresh sales between release and DLC release. 

>SS Engine isn't capable of small open world areas
Wild area was clearly a test for it and it works mostly fine, it has minor draw distance lag in 1 or 2 places but it's more than capable of large open spaces.

Play testers exist and we've had pokemon leaks from them in the past. The devs aren't the ones testing all that stuff, play testers are. And it's way simpler to test pokemon than it is to test a game like Far cry. Pokemon has super simple movement and very few ways to interact with anything. Instead of having to jump and drive vehicles at every spot on the map you just have to run up and down the edges a few times to make sure there's no way to break out of it. Most of pokemon's testing is simply using the battle menus, which is infinitely easier than having to test real time gameplay.
Replies: >>13656 >>13704
>>13602
>Wild area was clearly a test for it and it works mostly fine, it has minor draw distance lag in 1 or 2 places but it's more than capable of large open spaces.
That is a major understatement in terms of how much it chops up in the wild area, and that's with N64-tier draw distance. Honestly GameFreak makes the simplest of game rendering scenarios seem nearly impossible.
Replies: >>13704
>>13602
>SS isn't using the lets go engine. If you play Su/Mo then lets go they feel very similar.
Have you looked at the actual game files dude? SS clearly uses the same Frankenstein combination of Nintendo's SDK (Mario Kart 8) Lunchpack (Splatoon 2) and GF's spaghetti code.
>Nintendo never does. It announces the DLC a while later so it's fanboys can viral market the game twice. Announcing there will be a DLC is a good way to get fresh sales between release and DLC release.
While not incorrect, they also usually announce free updates before launch. Off the top of my head Arms, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing all went with that option, although the latter two are done by the same team to my knowledge so that's technically a them thing. But given how well Animal Crossing is performing, and how well liked Splatoon was, I feel like it's the best for everyone. Splatoon and AC also blatantly cut content, but there's a question of if and how much of it was actually finished before launch. I could literally point to some stubs in ACNH, but that's probably something more for the AC thread. The point is instead of saying "we won't put all the Pokemon in" they could have said "we won't be putting all the Pokemon in at launch but they will roll out with free updates" would have gotten them less bad press. Fuck, if they released a pack of a few Pokemon every month and had some free raids with some of them I feel like nobody but preservationists like me would be bitching. But the development timeline clearly tells me they weren't sure what they were doing, and didn't want another Pokemon 2 situation, I'm pretty sure. As for Isle of Armor's fuckyness, that could be due to lack of playtesting, lack of skill with the Switch (or in general), or general lack of time. They've been working on SS since SM came out, while comparatively the DLC has probably only been in development for like a year. As a matter of fact the fact that they showed so little assests of the second DLC when they announced it shows me they barely started it when they announced it, but had all the planning done for the most part. This gives us a good estimate of how long the DLC takes to make actually.
>Play testers exist and we've had pokemon leaks from them in the past.
Speaking of, if you read some of Game Freak's responses to playtesters in the leaks up there, it really gives you some insight into what the fuck their problem is.
>>13656
These are the devs that somehow made DP run like garbage, I wouldn't put anything past them. At least the 3DS games had the excuse of high-poly 3D models for Pokemon lagging out battles. Honestly if they didn't put a copy of every 3D model they needed on each seperate map, I can't imagine how bad load times would be.
Replies: >>13756
>>13595
Yet as you noted, as we can tell from the game files this is built off of lets go while the majority of its assets are from SM.
Even for gamefreak "wild area the game" would be a pitiful amount of work; to produce functionally only it. They've made loads of assets and done a lot in the last few games, /ss/ can't even do proper fucking backgrounds; its clearly a much lazier piece than its predecessors. 
Gamefreak isn't coders clearly, yet the game is hobbled together neither the less.

>>13704
>As a matter of fact the fact that they showed so little assets of the second DLC when they announced it shows me they barely started it
It should be pointed that armor seemed complete by announcement; i think your thinking they actually worked on it in a year when instead they probably just shoved out armor in about a month and started tundra after.
The things armor has in it either strike as universal or very basic. Armor by all means looks like a chopped together shit heap to have two DLCs to bump up tundras price.
>These are the devs that somehow made DP run like garbage, 
"Somehow". DP isn't actually the engine chugging, its just the stupidly slow HP bar animation.
>>13756
>yet the game is hobbled together neither the less.
I meant to say that even from an non code points of view the game is constantly terrible. The game has no reason to use super tiny textures everywhere and a simple replacement doesn't actually hit the games framerate.
Animations aren't done by coders and the barely any improvement on the models is not done by the coders. The game is lazy from an art perspective as well as its crap heap code.
>>13756
>It should be pointed that armor seemed complete by announcement
I think you
A. grossly underestimate how much work making a video game takes
B. ignore the fact that they only show off what's mostly done, and if you comb through the footage even the stuff they showed off probably isn't complete either
I'd also like to note that despite saying the fact that models (and indeed some animations, even for non-Pokemon) mare re-used from SM, the models for SM and SS are in different formats. Now I assume there's a different source file that both come from, but that still involves conversion and sometimes shit goes wrong. With how short of a development cycle they have shit like that can cause a downard spiral. And I can guarantee you that GF is capable of both fucking up that badly and spiraling hard if they encounter these issues. 
>DP isn't actually the engine chugging, its just the stupidly slow HP bar animation.
And the walking speed. And the surfing speed. And the wireless communications. And I think even loading to some extent. Seriously, go back to DP, every single aspect feels slow as shit. Platinum does fix some of that, but it also adds some graphical flare as well. Again, it took them 2 fucking years to do that, while you're saying Isle of Armor took them less than a year? Who can even fucking make shit like that in less than a year? Xenoblade 2's expansion pack of a DLC added a decent amount of content and polished up the gameplay a lot, and that took a whole year AND they were working on other minor stuff for the main game like a few sidequests and a challenge mode/time attack. I'm also pretty sure Xenoblade DE's bonus stuff had a similar timeframe, and they had an entire unfinished map to finish to save some time (although given what they said about Torna's original placement in the game they might have had a similar level of assets for that). I keep asking if you know anything about game development, and while I don't I feel like I'm talking with somebody who's never even heard of the concept of game development before.
Replies: >>13786 >>13789
>>13756
Did you play SS? It has a shit load of really good multi layer back drops for battles. The meme pictures come from 1 off fights like in the hotel. I'm not defending that but there is some great back drops in the game.
Replies: >>13786
>>13777
>A. grossly underestimate how much work making a video game takes
Isle of armor is made from the wild area with very simple gimmicks otherwise; the main "thing" is insanely broken and clearly hacked together from the roaming codewhich is why following pokemon probably have the balloon hitbox; thats the encounter hitbox i'd imagine
This isn't making a game, this is making a few maps for a game; and not very indepth ones either. Following is probably a feature that tundra also has.
>the models for SM and SS are in different formats.
I wasn't implying otherwise, ports have a development cycle for a reason. My point is that considering they had modelers lying around, maybe they could have stuck to that standard of quality LG had for model improvement.
Instead of just some extra ear polygons or something to that effect for most.

I quite literally have never brought up the numbers, you just leaped to it because you wanted an easy target.

>>13780
>one meme image
Every indoor fight is a fucking solid color, most areas do not have backdrops; a few good backdrops do not excuse the godawful backdrops.
The majority of the game is that meme image because solid color backdrops are the majority; i can say this because i've pirated this shitheap.

The "other" backgrounds are pretty mediocre anyway. There are certainly not many, nor are they particularly high quality.
Replies: >>13797 >>13800
>>13777
>and the walking speed. And the surfing speed. And the wireless communications.
I hope you aren't relying on the idea of the former two not being related to 3D considering overworld wise DP is very much very 3D, a proper reason considering 3D on the DS is pretty fucky.
Were any DS games particularly fast wireless wise? I remember all games being pretty bad in that regards. 

DP was them overhauling the engine, /ss/ no matter how you push it is basically an attempt to port the "3DS gameplay" into the lets go engine.which is really stupid by the way, i legitimately cannot grasp how retarded you have to be to actively port the flaws
Gamefreak has notably shat the bed any time the engine basically needed to be replaced, but /ss/ is not that. It is not a new engine like RS and XY or insane modification like DP. 
It is the lets go engine with a new gimmicky feature, game dev generally doesn't feature everyone focusing on a single concept either; yet thats the only plausible reason you can give.
Replies: >>13800
>>13786
I'm literally playing it as we speak. You're full of shit and the vast majority are modeled.
>>13786
>maybe they could have stuck to that standard of quality LG had for model improvement.
What the fuck are you talking about, it's the exact same models, animations, and format (although there's a handful of slightly different animations for things exclusive to SS). Also what numbers? I feel like we're having two different conversations.
>>13789
>hope you aren't relying on the idea of the former two not being related to 3D
That's exactly what I meant, and a lot of other RPGs on the DS handle just fine. I've played a lot of games by Matrix Software from that era and none of them are as bad as DP. Hell, Super Mario 64 DS probably runs better than DP, and that's a launch title. I wouldn't know as I haven't played it, personally.
>Gamefreak has notably shat the bed any time the engine basically needed to be replaced, but /ss/ is not that. It is not a new engine like RS and XY or insane modification like DP. 
It is the lets go engine with a new gimmicky feature, game dev generally doesn't feature everyone focusing on a single concept either; yet thats the only plausible reason you can give.
You're actually fucking stupid, holy shit. I'm not even going to try to dissect what's wrong with that statement because I don't even know where to begin
Replies: >>13803
>>13800
>What the fuck are you talking about, it's the exact same models, animations, and format 
Lets go added fully modeled mouths and stuff like that, a pretty huge improvement for models.
>That's exactly what I meant, and a lot of other RPGs on the DS handle just fine. 
I wasn't implying DP was some masterpiece, i'm saying that nothing about /ss/ implies it had the same amount of work.

Chunk loading or whatever thing they added is not on par with giving an engine the ability to handle 3D. Nor does it magically make other "teams" working on the game work less.
DP is perfectly fine outside of its crap speed, /ss/ is not. And get this, as bad as it looks its functional; that part of the engine certainly works so its not what i'm talking about when i say "/ss/ is shit".
>>10206
Doesn't every line still gets its fair share of unique shit? That's the marketable part they always highlight. In that sense I don't really see much of a change.

>>12063
This one actually deserved the build-up (from a marketing perspective, investors must be happy), now Pokemon fucking smile on the other hand. Why did they need to explain to us 3 times what it was about in the same video? Why even have a video at all? Nobody cares about that shit. I was laughing my ass of when they kept going on and on about this throwaway app like anybody watching was actually interested.
>>626
Pokeballs contain an paradise for the pokemon inside.
>>626
If you consider the anime, there's quite a few times that being able to just recall Pikachu into a Pokeball at range would thwart Team Rocket's attempts to steal him. Same for other various Pokemon that are more often than not out of their balls (wild Pokemon not counted for obvious reasons). Granted, it's not like Pokeballs can't be stolen as well, and why trainers don't think to try to recall their mons from being stolen immediately, I'm not sure, but it's an added layer of convenience and safety. Also ability to be digitally converted and sent to storage or other locations, and so people aren't all wandering around with up to six creatures of various sizes out clogging up the roads and buildings wherever they go.

>Do you think it's just a way to get fainted pokemon out of the way during battles? Imagine if you had to drag your pokemon off field whenever it faints.
To my knowledge, Japan words it as "unable to battle", which the English anime took up. It's why mons can still use HMs in that state, and why in the anime (probably manga as well) they become conscious again really fast, but still don't have the energy to fight. "Fainted" is just what the western (or at least English) scripts use to save space. Still asks the question of why a Pokemon might be too exhausted to briefly use Fly or Surf in battle but perfectly able to do so at length on the field despite that.

>>13370
>GF are scared of players getting lost and not playing the game any more. 
Does Pokemon even still have the town map item/function? Or do you mean more players jumping down one cliff too many and not knowing how to get back up or something?
>>15029
>Still fucking up spoilers.
Fug.
>>15029
>Still asks the question of why a Pokemon might be too exhausted to briefly use Fly or Surf in battle but perfectly able to do so at length on the field despite that.
It's less about it being able to use a move and more about being able to take another hit. I don't know much about boxing, but I've seen somebody play Punch-Out before, so it's more like the ref counting to 10 or a TKO rather than actually being knocked out.
Replies: >>15037
>>15036
If you get the shit kicked out of you; you'll find it difficult to do anything in general, much less carry a person.
The body doesn't exactly separate such things because that'd be pretty stupid, if you can't really take another hitwhich certainly isn't how any media actually shows it as, you'll struggle to do much at all.

Course its just some mechanical leniency, some mons are so huge their trainers weight wouldn't do jack; while others are questionable even at 100%.
>>15029
>o my knowledge, Japan words it as "unable to battle", which the English anime took up. It's why mons can still use HMs in that state, and why in the anime (probably manga as well) they become conscious again really fast, but still don't have the energy to fight. "Fainted" is just what the western (or at least English) scripts use to save space.
What do you think a more appropriate translation would be? "Incapacitated" sounds too long.
Replies: >>15156 >>15326
>>15069
I mean, I get why they did it, at least in the Game Boy days (I'd say these days they should have plenty of space to work with due to better resolution, but at least as of the DS, you'd still see combat text only filling the left half of the boxes). Monospaced font sets need worse trimming than variable width ones. "Downed" could get the point across without the loss of consciousness aspect, but maybe that's a bit too synonymous with "killed".
Replies: >>15326
>>15029
>To my knowledge, Japan words it as "unable to battle"
Only in the anime, so that doesn't explain HMs. The games use ひんし/瀕死 which means quite literally "about to die" or "critical condition". The TCG and Go use きぜつ/気絶, which means unconscious.
>>15171
Ah, so it's all over the place then. My bad.
Replies: >>15326
>>15171
Didn't the English games have "No more will to fight" or something?
>>15029
>>15069
>>15156
>>15171
>>15187
Whatever great explanation someone might come up with, in the end everyone knows HMs work like that purely for gameplay reasons.
Replies: >>16422
>>15326
Pretty much. I'm actually amazed how far Game Freak went to prevent softlocks in gen 3 onwards.
>>15029
Does pokemon have maps? Yes
Is that enough? No.

Game freak used an example of players getting lost as the first room in a 2D game. Players are so dumb they couldn't find the exit to your bedroom.. This is the people they're designing the games around now. People unable to leave the first room.
Replies: >>16453 >>17158
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>>16427
>Game freak used an example of players getting lost as the first room in a 2D game.
>People unable to leave the first room.
you're kidding right?
Replies: >>17154 >>17907
>>16453
I do recall that there was an anon on 8chan telling a story about how he managed to have pokemon red for months and still never manage to leave the house.
Can't seem to find the screen cap though
Replies: >>17161 >>18050
>>16427
>Players are so dumb they couldn't find the exit to your bedroom.
Fucking how? Even in the past it was always obvious thanks to either a staircase, or a mat in front of the door. Are nuPokemon players really that dumb, or is GameFreak deliberately finding downies as testers so as to justify dumbing the games down? Assuming that story is true, anyhow.
Replies: >>17541
>>17154
I've seen a few of those including not on chans, so I guess they're real. Also a guy having Charizard before Brock, but forgot the reason.
Replies: >>18050
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>>17158
You underestimate
A. How low game developers think of player's intelligence
B. How dumb some people are (do I need to find that Valve playtester thing?)
While I don't always mind developers lowering the skill floor, too often they don't raise the skill ceiling with it. To use an example from Mario, shit like Fludd and Cappy raise the skill ceiling by adding movement options, but also lower the skill floor by making it easy to make jumps and get back from mistakes. On the other hand shit that either literally plays the game for you or makes the game baby mode only lowers the skill floor. Oddly enough, fucking Sonic had a better implementation of the same thing in the form of leaving in debug mode. Brainlets would use it to skip everything, while actual smart people would learn something about game development. My brother probably got into hacking Sonic communities then actual programming from that mode. Pokemon has no consideration for anyone of intelligence because online has made them complacent in that regard. They've literally said if somebody wants challenge or a postgame, it's online, which if we're being honest is technically true. Hell, raids in SS show me that they're actually willing to create new online content and make it the postgame, so they think they have it solved when they might actually not.
Replies: >>17650 >>18021
I doubt players literally got stuck in the starting room if only for the fact that the room has limited floor space so a trained monkey could find the exit by simply mashing buttons and testing every floor tile. That said, I do remember GameFreak stating that they're targeting retarded kids addicted to mobile phones and that GameFreak believed the older generation was too difficult and slow for said kids. Thus, the increasingly dumbed down gameplay and endless tutorials that insult your intelligence.
It would be nice if they could at least put in a difficulty system that let you skip the tutorials and actually challenged the player. Ideally, without tying it to some asinine unlock system like in B/W2
Unfortunately, regardless of GameFreak's numerous missteps, the games and all the merchandise still sells like gangbusters so I doubt they'll ever attempt to address any of these problems. If it ain't broke, why fix it?
Replies: >>17560 >>17907
>>17551
>The old games are too slow? We need to make it so that progress is infuriatingly slow by forcing player into drawn-out tutorials and cutscenes to fix this.
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Play Nexomon. Pirate it like me for all I care. I want to hear more people's thoughts on it.

>>17541
>pic
Where's that from?
Replies: >>17843
>>17650
It's from Super Mario Odyssey's files. Assist  Mode's internal names for the graphics of the logo have the word "kids" in it, implying that they don't think kids would understand Mario Odyssey. Of course you can also use this information to make fun of anybody who used it for reasons other than fucking around or speedrunning. I mean you can still make fun of those people but they have a reason other than being retarded for doing it.
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>>17551
>>16453
I was that retard. I remember getting pokemon yellow and being stuck in the house all day before realizing that if I push on the wall with the house mat I could go outside. I was 6 or 7 at the time.
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>>17907
what the hell man
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>>17541
Emerald Battle Frontier was an actual challenge. There's no excuse.
Replies: >>18102
>>17154
I can't find it either, but I distinctly remember seeing a screenshot of it and a dozen or so replies. The OP had tried to make a "what autistic things have you done" thread, but it ended up just being everyone boggling at him remaining stuck for so long.

>>17161
>Also a guy having Charizard before Brock, but forgot the reason.
A shame, I'd like to hear the explanation for that one. I did a solo Charmander run once; Charizard before Misty isn't unreasonable, but before Brock? Wouldn't you have to grind for ages despite already being more than strong enough to move on?
>>18021
These still exist in the modern pokemon games, arguably even better.
Replies: >>18560
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>>18102 
because sets like these are better than what Emerald had

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